Council – I am sorry these notes are so late.

Present: Artem, Arnie, J.C., Mark, Larry, Kim, Eric, Monica

  • Contacting authors: This is an important issue over the long term. We need to be able to contact authors whose articles fall outside the BPOV. We lost the friending capability, which was an excellent way to contact people, when we moved to the central profile. I am adding the request to the Wiki Feature Requests article and will make sure Sean (Wiki developer) sees it. An interim solution is to encourage people to add contact info to their profile. Monica to forward this issue to the Usability team, who will be addressing the “welcome” experience overall.
  • Blog: Can we refer this issue to the new council? Yuri and Ed are possible council members, and they can restate their proposal. Council comments: Review the purpose. Is it to promote contributors? Promote content? Could we use the wiki instead, for example, a “Wins in Community” article? Artem says that his product teams have one “blog poster,” many authors, so this may be a possibility if we go ahead with the blog.
  • New council: To finalize next council members, Kim to write an article to clarify the difference between the council and advisory board. We have more MS employees than users, and this article will help move people around judiciously. We should also consider recruiting more members outside of the Content Publishing discipline, such as someone from TechNet. Ach! We’ll have to update the alias too through Ed Hickey.
  • Governance article: Can you review? When “final,” it should be sent to all council and advisory board members, and Eric should grant all delete privileges.

Well! I should be out of the council by July 1 because I have sold my soul to my new job. I will see you at the Advisory Board meetings – I will not give up my wiki work! When we have finalized the council members, we can figure out a meeting time, and I will contact the new members.

Serving on the council has been an honor. Working with our esteemed MVPs and CSS member on a regular basis has been a key experience that I will bring to my new team. I will miss everyone.



Present: Kim, Larry, Yuri, Ed, Kelly, Arnie, J.C., Monica

Thanks a lot to everyone who attended. Follow-up items in italics.

  • Council/Advisory Board: To clarify, Council covers policy (locking, deleting, defining a “balanced point of view,” etc.). Council should have equal number of FTE and non-FTE for balance. Prospective members: Kim, Ed, Yuri, Charlotte, Artem (FTE); Arnie, Mark, Kelly (non-FTE). Actually, I’ll follow up with Kelly. I’ll follow up with an MVP in Brazil that Ed and Yuri recommended. Please recommend more MVPs to this alias.
  • Advisory Board: Operations, adoption. Want a lot of members and recurring meetings to discuss, for example, interop and solution-oriented content.
  • Merging the two groups: Advantageous as long as council maintains a separate DL and frequent enough meetings to function as a group when issues arise.
  • Blog: “Wiki Ninjas Blog.” Plan is to convey events, wiki activity, reward top players, etc. (Yuri does this successfully now for the Brazilian audience through social media.) Ed would propose a schedule and authors.
  • Council, et al. will meet with Sean Jenkins (of TechNet) soon to discuss opening the blog to non-FTEs
  • Scope of blog: Should cover general announcements and should also highlight the technologies covered and edge-case info that doesn’t exist elsewhere. J.C. to test using multiple tags for RSS feeds

I’ll discuss coordinating council/advisory board meetings with Eric and make a recommendation to this group.

Thanks again,





Present: Larry, Mark, J.C., Kim, Artem, Monica

  • New members: We’ll invite them to the next meeting. We need two more MVPs. If there is an overabundance of FTE’s we’ll ask them to serve elsewhere (marketing, etc.). Names: Suzanna Moran, Charlotte Raymundo, Ed Price, Yuri Diogenes (FTE’s). Kim, Monica, Eric, and Mark to try to recruit MVPs at TechEd
  • Wiki blog: Ed and Yuri will summarize the plan at the next meeting. Council request: Push STO to make an exception to allow non-MS contributors. Creates a perception problem otherwise
  • Language-based wikis: Although they are still in a preliminary stage, the only thing we can really do is pass on governing info, which we’ll do
  • Signature in articles: General comments
    • Advantages: Drives credibility and provides attribution
    • Now: Can add this info manually. Ex. “Original author…” and “Contributors…”
    • Long term: Have the code read the list of contributors, figure out criteria for contribution that lands author in the contributor list (in right column). Take up with Eric and discuss further


From: Ed Price
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 11:12 AM
To: Monica Rush;
Cc: Yuri Diogenes
Subject: RE: Wiki community council -- NOTES (4/21)

 Can we discuss more of the disadvantages to using Wordpress on an Azure server?

 Wordpress advantages:

  • Non-Microsoft folks can post
  • We can easily put Google Adsense ads on our blog. LOL (True, but we obviously wouldn’t do that.)

TechNet Blog advantages:

  • Wordpress costs $ and setup time (a lot of time; we could have already built the TechNet blog in the time it takes to even think about the Wordpress blog and how to set it up the right way for our needs, or the time it took me to write this email, for example).
  • TechNet blog has built-in TechNet search results.
  • And its posts will appear on the Blogs home page. The result of TechNet Blog integration is that we’ll get about 1K views per blog without even trying (views we wouldn’t get out the gate from a Wordpress blog).
  • With Wordpress, we’d have to build an audience, and the only thing connecting it to our audience is Google/Bing search. (Versus TechNet search + TechNet Blogs Home Page + getting indexed in Google and Bing search 100 times faster + getting SEO from Google/Bing search that is 100 times better.) TechNet Blogs has already built a fast search indexing turnover rate and an amazing level of SEO (simply amazing; I wrote a blog called “About User Ed” and now my blog is at the top of “User Ed” search results, and it has nothing to do with “User Education”; it’s ridiculously, comically amazing).
  • TechNet Blog connects our profiles to the same system that TechNet Wiki uses. That means that readers of Yuri’s blog post can just click his name or profile image to see all the Wiki articles he’s been writing! This is huge for community synergy!
  • Also because it’s connected to Profiles, our authors have a HUGE reason to author on the blog. Not only will it help send readers to their own blogs, Wiki, and forum work, but it also will give them points into their profile that increases their achievements!!!! This could be a wonderful motivator to get our ninjas to blog on the Wiki Ninja blog!
  • We can track views, comments, and other data far more easily through TechNet Blogs than through Wordpress. 

So, I know that might be frustrating for some MVP folks to not be able to post, but I think the advantages of using the TechNet Blog system FAR OUTWAY the single advantage of using Wordpress (or Blogger for that matter).


  • Some of our MVPs already have a- or v- MSFT accounts and could write on our blog (a- and v- folks can write on blogs, but they can’t create new ones).
  • MVPs and community members can be assigned to MSFT folks who can then publish their stuff. They just email the content to the MSFT person (including authoring credit, picture, link to their site and Wiki articles, and bio info), and the MSFT person publishes it (this is the “guest blogger” model, which has been successful for years).
  • Similarly, folks can send emails with smaller content news and then someone can roll it up into a single blog (such as Yuri blogging about Brazilian activity).
  • We can hammer on the TechNet team to create a permanent solution.

 So yes, Yuri and I would love to attend a council meeting to discuss blogs, but we’d like to discuss the technical end before it’s planned or decided on.

 I also don’t know where we are in the “Community Ninja” versus “Wiki Ninja” discussion. I gave some notes on why I think we should focus on “Wiki Ninja” but also start a “Community Ninja.” So I don’t know what our thoughts are on that.

 Thank you!

 Ed Price

Technical Writer

SQL Server Analysis Services

blogs.msdn.com/User_Ed (& twitter )

 From: Monica Rush
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 10:46 AM
Cc: Yuri Diogenes; Ed Price
Subject: Wiki community council -- NOTES (4/21)

 Present: Kim, Larry, Arnie, Eric

  • Blog: All who attended are in favor of the blog. Let’s hear from the others on the council (the original mail may not have reached everyone). There are follow-up items: Eric to look into creating a domain, hosting on Azure, and putting WordPress on it, or some similar method to enable non-MS people to author. We’d also like to talk further with Yuri and Ed about planning. How about having Yuri and Ed attend a council meeting as soon as Eric figures out the technical end?
  • TechEd: Monica to contact BPD people who will attend (Jason Roth, Heidi Steen) for possible staffing hours (and cc Kim). Eric et al. working on a survey. Any actual “contest” has to go through Legal, but we can ask people to draw sticker ideas on the survey
  • New council members: We’ll stay on until we find replacements. Want to make them strategic in terms of role, technology, and connectedness. Eric to ask Kevin Beares; Monica to ask Ed Hickey, Ed Lehman, and J.C.; and Arnie to talk to MVPs and Jeremy Kelly. Want to maintain the four MS, four non-MS balance
  • New priorities for council: Since governance issues will be wrapped up soon (for now), and the advisory board will work on adoption, new council members could consider among their priorities achievement. Issues: Can’t tie achievement to just creating articles; community has to find value (ratings, “likes,” etc.). Create a guided tour through content? Reward people to read a great blog? How do we evaluate usage on non-MS properties?
  • Delete/revise: We can’t make software changes now, but we’ll record our earlier proposal in the council notes. In the meantime, we’ll use the Report Abuse link, the Ninjas, and the council and advisory board aliases to monitor abuse, proposed revisions. We’ll ask Usability if they can help with any required cleanup. Monica to consolidate governing info into one article listing relevant aliases for easy reference. Self-imposed deadline is May 1
  • Future swag/events: Wiki Ninja beer, dinner on campus w/music and open bar (has been successful because environment was conducive to talking but also nice)

Thanks to all. We’ll be in touch in two weeks to see if we have enough info about the issues above to meet again. Yuri and Ed, we’ll be in touch soon about the blog.



: Kim, Larry, Arnie, Monica

Discussed deletion. Will follow up with Eric to see what’s doable short term (manually); long term (software).

Possible scenario for deleting articles/marking for revision:

  • If spam, delete
  • If deleted, notification mail goes to Council, Advisory Board, Eric, Sean, who can verify that deletion is valid
  • If does not fit balanced point of view guidelines, keep the article public but take two actions: 1) add disclaimer with date stamp; 2) mark calendar so that somebody knows to revisit in 30 days. This would be a manual process now but automatic at some point. Round robin notifications out to advisory board, council, or whoever is monitoring that section to ensure followup
  • Delete if not revised after 30 days

Disclaimer: This article does not currently fit the guidelines for the TechNet Wiki’s balanced point of view or appears to be incomplete. We encourage the original author or the community to revise it. If the article is not revised within 30 days it will be deleted.


  • Delete privileges: Sean, Eric, Council, Advisory Board, some of the Ninjas

Note: Anyone who has delete privileges should be sent a copy of BPOV and asked to review it so they understand their responsibility

  • Surfacing the policy: How does a user request deletion or know how to mark for revision?
    • Add an alias like the report abuse link (“Article deletion proposal”) in the UI. In the forums moderators have escalate button to forward to product team member
    • Put a link on the editing surface to one article that contains this guidance?
    • Add to signup article: “When you join the wiki you may be contacted for questions related to your submissions.” We should be able to send email behind the scenes so that we’re not violating privacy. This is a request by moderators on the forums now. We should get whatever the forums get. Also, in Codeplex you can contact the author behind the scenes
  • Check: When something is deleted is it still retrievable?


: Kim, Larry, Arnie, Monica


  • Advisory board vs. council: Board works on adoption, and forwards any governing issues (like delete privileges) to council. Council does governing
  • Delete privileges: Discuss with Eric.
    • Possible scenario for deleting articles (articles that are not spam, which Kim is currently defining):
      • Remove article from view; second phase more permanent delete
      • Mail goes to council, Eric, Sean
      • Removed article URL redirects to a page that states: article is inappropriate (for reasons in Kim’s article that we’ll link to), contact info to discuss/improve, will delete if no change after a week
      • Disclaimer: Need to make this as all-purpose as possible

Question: Could we create a private wiki-like environment to remove articles from view?

  • Delete privileges: Sean, Eric, Council. Alias to which people can send requests to delete. Like the report abuse link – separated from . Push it into the software: Remove it from view; second phase more permanent delete. In forums moderators have escalate button to forward to product team member. “Article deletion proposal” Add to the private wiki? (Some kind of private wiki for possible deletion.) Go to a page that indicates it’s being reconsidered. Message should give contact info so author can contact the group. Mark with flag to say visible or not visible rather than public or private (same concept). Gut it. Info
  • BPOV, and disclaimer: all in this article

Can we put a link on the editing surface to these pages? With quick note indicating BPOV, disclaimer

Disclaimer: This article does not currently fit the guidelines for the TechNet Wiki’s balanced point of view or is inappropriate. See this “How to

Articles that express a preference for a solution should avoid product “bashing.” Articles about non-Microsoft technologies should describe how they interoperate with Microsoft technologies. If this article is not revised within two weeks it may be deleted. We will attempt to contact the author.

Articles as forums: What happened to friend functionality? Can we get email address? Add a note to go post to the forum and then remove after a few days. “Looks like a good question for a forum. Post in a week, and we’ll delete Kim – send link to your article.

Need an examples page.

  • Comments being used for questions (Kurt Hudson, writer)
  • Legal: Could we have a productive discussion? About community content? About CSS participation? Or will these issues resolve themselves over time
  • I think we should update the Ninjas on what the council is doing. Good idea?



  • Present: Arnie, J.C., Kim, Larry, Artem, Monica


    • Legalese for wiki: After discussing with Eric, we’ll arrange a meeting with Legal to discuss the wiki. Main issues are support, IP, copyright, art. Clarification may benefit the wiki in terms of contribution (internal and external) and user expectations. The wiki is not perceived by everyone to be comparable to blogs and forums in terms of support, although it is comparable. For one thing, the content is more extensive. When we have clarified especially the support issue we’ll continue discussions with Charlotte and CSS
    • Council meeting time: Alternating Thursday mornings at 7:30 am Pacific time. I will update the invite soon
    • Offsite: Wed., 3/2 from 7:00 am to 1:00 pm works. Arnie will come for breakfast, depending on the menu (a little joke). We’ll send details and a request for agenda items soon

    TOU excerpts and comments:

    Wiki Terms of Use


    • TOU: The software is licensed “as-is.” You bear the risk of using it. The contributors give no express warranties, guarantees or conditions. 
    • So: Is this the relevant text? Is it explicit enough for CSS?


    • TOU: All Content is the copyrighted work of Microsoft or its suppliers.
    • Def. of copyright from wikipedia: Copyright is a set of exclusive rights granted to the author or creator of an original work, including the right to copy, distribute and adapt the work. Copyright does not protect ideas, only their expression.
    • So: Microsoft owns the copyright but not the intellectual property of wiki content.

    Comment: Interface, application is MS. Content, copyright, and IP s/b owner

    Intellectual property:

    • TOU: Microsoft does not claim ownership of code, content, comments, feedback, suggestions, information or materials that you provide via this web site or any Services
    • So: Again, IP belongs to the content owner


    • TOU: …You will not… Use any material or information, including images or photographs, which are made available through the Services in any manner that infringes any copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret, or other proprietary right of any party
    • So: We must get permission from authors to use their art


    • TOU: Microsoft reserves the right to terminate your access to any or all of the Services at any time, without notice, for any reason whatsoever.
    • So: We can permanently remove people from the wiki if necessary

    Links to third-party sites:

    • So: We can link to 3rd-party sites

    Links from Artem for reference:



    Present: J.C., Kim, Artem, Larry, Monica, and Charlotte

    CSS: We met with Charlotte Raymundo, a Sr. Support Escalation Engineer with CSS. She had two main questions: 1) Customer perception around wiki support. Is the disclaimer prominent enough? 2) Knowing when it’s advantageous to use the wiki over a blog or forum or KB. She thought others in CSS would benefit from understanding these distinctions.


    1) Clarifying terms of use: Discuss with Eric and/or Legal to understand which exact text in the TOU specifies non-support. (Eric worked with Legal extensively before the wiki launch.) If we can’t point to specific language, what needs to be added?

    2) Increasing CSS presence on the wiki:


    • Too busy on the phone
    • Does it count for utilization? Front of the funnel and customer-driven utilization. The latter is a priority
    • Does wiki content reduce phone calls? Susan Joly (SQL Azure PM) looking into this. Larry to follow up

    How to increase involvement?

    • Maintain an FAQ or troubleshooting guide
    • Point out benefits: Engineer’s name is associated with article. Also forces engineer to be accountable. Drives recognition of engineer by customers
    • Scenario guides (supported and non-supported). Benefit of the wiki here is timeliness
    • Test Lab Guides
    • Quick fix info – Kim to send link to Zero Day Threat article:


    Council meeting time: Make it earlier to enable Mark and Eric to attend. How about Fri. at 7:00 am Pacific? Please let me know.

    Wiki offsite during MVP Summit: Wednesday any time. Eric will set soon. Arnie and Mark, let us know if you have time preferences on Wednesday. Artem may be here! Artem – send itinerary when you have it

    Next meeting in two weeks. We’ll circulate the revised moderation article in email for review and additions.

    Thanks to all. Special thanks to Charlotte for her time, and for a good discussion.






    Present: J.C., Mark, Kim, Larry, Monica. Arnie sent comments before the meeting. Artem is at a TechEd-like conference in Russia.

    • Final draft of BPOV and disclaimer: If there are no other comments by our next meeting, Monica will: 1) add these to the wiki guidelines (not sure which article yet); 2) add the disclaimer to one article Eric called to our attention; 3) talk to Eric about how he wants to handle with management (do nothing; discuss, etc.). Any more edits please send

    Balanced point of view (BPOV): We welcome articles representing different sides of a technical solution or issue. Articles demonstrating critical thinking are encouraged; articles with personalized criticism or "product bashing” may be removed. We also welcome information about non-Microsoft technologies that are part of a solution involving Microsoft technologies. Articles should be technical, and not marketing, in tone.

    Disclaimer: This article does not currently fit the guidelines for the TechNet Wiki’s balanced point of view. Articles that express a preference for a solution should avoid "product bashing.” Articles about non-Microsoft technologies should describe how they interoperate with Microsoft technologies. If this article is not revised within two weeks it may be deleted. We will attempt to contact the author.

    • TechEd Berlin, SQL PASS: Mark pointed out the difficulty of promoting the wiki near a tantalizing alternative like Kinect. Food for thought. Thanks to Arnie for arranging the Birds of a Feather luncheon with SQL PASS. Two MVPs (France, India) will consider contributing content. India provides a lot of potential
    • Wiki offsite: Mark suggests waiting until the MVP summit in late Feb, so that he and possibly Arnie can attend. Will discuss scheduling with Eric to try to accommodate the council. Big issue for us is how to apply BPOV when the wiki scales
    • Non-English: In discussing non-English options in a meeting with Microsoft research and the wiki devs, we must keep in mind that machine translation itself is not adequate. Natively written articles inspire the most trust. To be continued






The consensus is that the proposed revisions to the balanced point of view definition are too heavy-handed and corporate. They must be customer and not management-oriented. Arnie, Larry, and Monica will meet Monday morning to revise. We’ll send them out again for more comments.

We want to get this right. These guidelines set the tone for the wiki.

We also talked briefly about CSS and the wiki. J.C. mentioned that the wiki came up in one of his staff meetings. Monica to forward a few in-progress docs to J.C.: FAQ, Best Practices, and SQL Azure wiki plan.

We will request that Eric include J.C. in discussions about CSS and the wiki with members of TechNet.


Present: Artem, Eric, Kim, Larry, Arnie, J.C., Ed Hickey, Monica

  • Meeting schedule for the near future:

Tues, 10/26 at 10:00: Conference call with SQL MVPs

Thurs, 10/28 at 8:00: Council meeting to update the BPOV definition re: third-party software. This includes disclaimer

Biweekly meetings after that

EXCEPT: We need to figure out a way to make ourselves available on short notice in case another governance issue like the Linux article comes up. To resolve next week

  • BPOV: In updating BPOV consider whether an article about third-party software hurts Microsoft. Or is it just “subjectively bothersome.” After we update the definition, decide where to put it and how to get the word out
  • Existing definition: A BPOV for the Wiki affirms it as solution-oriented content that can include third-party information, where you can express a preference for one solution over another while avoiding criticism. It also keeps the wiki technical, not marketing, in tone.
  • Disclaimer draft: “This article does not yet fit within the TechNet Wiki guidelines. If it is not updated to fit the guidelines within XX days, it will be removed.”
  • SQL MVP deck: Eric, Kim, and Monica to finalize draft Monday morning and send out right away for review before the Tuesday meeting


Meeting canceled.


Present: Kim, J.C., Larry, Arnie, Monica, Eric.

  • Revising BPOV: We discussed clarifying the definition of balanced point of view, especially in reference to non-MS technologies. The issue arose because of an article about Linux that was predominantly about Linux and not about interop between Linux and Windows.

Arnie will send mail on the general  subject of who owns the wiki, as food for thought in resolving this issue. Monica will draft a disclaimer that we can consider adding to similar articles in the future to request augmentation. We don’t want to jeopardize contribution about non-MS technologies yet if they are recast as interop info they will be a unique piece of content, unlike definitional content about non-MS technologies that could be found elsewhere.

We should also discuss whether we can find someone to augment the Linux article so we could add it back in. This leads to the important question of “staffing”: we need an army of SME’s we can consult to augment articles. I will consult the advisory board about this. I have been remiss about contacting them, but now is the time…

Monica will also contact the author to summarize our discussion.

Next meeting: Finalize any revisions to BPOV

  • SQL PASS: No official wiki presence. Monica to promote where possible. Arnie and Monica to discuss staffing a birds-of-a-feather lunch about the wiki
  • TechEd: Options still under discussion. Eric will contact Mark
  • SQL MVP conference call: We’ll work on the deck through email. I’ll send out early next week
  • Press release: Artem’s draft. Additional comments from Artem attached. Relates to the issue of wiki ownership. Let’s work on it through email
  • Meeting frequency: Biweekly. I’ll update the invite 


Present: Mark, Arnie, Artem, J.C., Kim, Larry, Monica

Conference call with SQL MVPs: We’ll have a few slides (I’ll start the deck):

  • Benefit for participants, including how it boosts reputation
  • By getting in early they have an opportunity to help direct
  • What do they want out of the wiki?
  • Wiki demo, inc. signup and creating an article
  • Discussion
  • Follow-up unanswered questions in email

SQL PASS: Several BPD writers will be staffing. Not sure whether they will have time to promote the wiki. Monica to try to get a few passes. Arnie will look into whether we can have a table during the Wednesday luncheon devoted to discussing the wiki

Mark at TechEd: Kim looking into facilities and options. Will also clarify with Eric what his plans are. We’ll get lots of stickers to Mark

Advisory board: Will mail them early next week. They need to solve problems that the Council raises: 1) Technology recommendations; 2) Increasing adoption; 3) What’s the best configuration for them to be effective? Possibly they should consist of significant community influencers for different technologies. Ex. 1) Jeffrey Palermo when we’re ready to approach the development community; 2)  Steven Rose for Windows development

Press release: All: Please review for next week. Arnie to create a shorter version so people have options when promoting the wiki. Want to notify Ninjas and others that these texts are available

Linux expert at MS: Passed on our content recommendations to him. He was very grateful, will talk to his team, and plans to create a video with Tony and then create articles


Meeting canceled.


Meeting canceled.


Present: Ed Hickey, J.C., Larry, Kim, Arnie, Mark, Eric, Monica

Thank you to Ed for discussing how to interest SQL MVPs in the wiki. This is an important step in promoting the wiki to a large influential group.

SQL MVPs: 300 SQL MVPs worldwide

  • Conference call:
    • Purpose is to 1) raise awareness of the wiki; 2) explain how to participate; 3) clarify distinction between SQLServerPedia and wiki (Monica to contact SQLServerPedia editor before the call)
    • Decide on date; give Ed two weeks’ notice
    • Prepare visuals
    • Since new MVPs are more likely to contribute focus on them; more experienced more likely to join after wiki is more established (although we should try to appeal to both)
    • Follow up with email since not all MVPs will attend
  • SQL PASS (Professional Association for SQL Server):
    • Nov. 8 – 12 in Seattle
    • Ed to get contacts and forward to Kim and Arnie
    • Ed, Arnie, and Kim to consider the options, funding, staffing

Authority: Continue the discussion next week. A statement from the Council would probably be helpful. Recent comments by Council members:

  • The “official” or “supported” designation for some articles makes the wiki seem like a Microsoft mouthpiece. Will be a disincentive to customers. Why should I put my stuff out there to be overruled by MS?
  • Lots of support info from CSS goes out on blogs. Very rarely does a customer request that it be put into KB form to identify it as “supported”
  • The term “supported” is not clearly defined. And in general, if you call support they will help to the extent that they can
  • Reputation has to be earned. Some information by support teams has been corrected by MVPs
  • Surely we do not decide what is and is not supported. All we can promise is that “following these instructions as described will not affect the supportability of your environment/software with Microsoft”
  • This assumes that all trusted content flows from Microsoft authority; what about an article on how to use PHP or Ruby with IIS or SQL Server?  Or how to use SQL Azure from apps on Android or iOS devices? The wiki allows for content that typically will not reside on the library, and we need to discover a trust scenario for this type of content

We’ll have Ed Price attend a meeting in a few weeks to discuss his release notes pilot. It most resembles Wikipedia’s “pending edits,” where contributions are vetted by a designated group of subject matter experts.

Press release: Please send comments on the attached press release list by EOW so Arnie and Artem can begin the draft. Re: length, in the age of the sound bite it should be short, although key points such as benefits to contributors and the community must be clear.


Present: Artem, Kim, Mark, J.C., Larry, Arnie, Monica, Jen Lussier (Community PM)

Thanks for the good meeting. Special thanks to Jen for discussing her social media strategy and for the good work she’s put into it.

Naming policy: Current text. Any more changes? Should of course be concise yet clear.

Use the name you create to build your professional reputation. After choosing your name for the TechNet Wiki, create a profile with your areas of interest and expertise. Add a picture. Make it easy for people to friend you and want to collaborate with you.

For example, use your legal  name, or a name that you are known as on other Internet resources.

To strengthen the wiki community we will keep it free of offensive names:

  • Users with abusive, vulgar, or offensive names will be removed without warning
  • Users with trademarked, celebrity, or other unusable names may be renamed
  • These restrictions apply where offense or misrepresentation is intended or implied, in any language
  • Where there is any doubt or ambiguity, the TechNet Wiki Community Council will make the final decision

Social media working group:

  • Using forums and blogs to promote wiki and to solicit contributions. Currently one representative per technology
  • Figuring out how to use metrics to measure success (does the social media effort increase visitation, contribution, etc.)
  • How to add representatives of new technologies to the social media effort? Monica to work with Jen to summarize social media on the wiki and link it to signup
  • Home page redesign: When this is more final, need to show Ninjas, Council, etc. J.C. to use social media to get input from users on the redesign. We’ll use the forum, too
  • Jen to give a status report on the social media effort to the Ninjas, forum, etc. when the time is right. Why: So people see progress; they see how the working groups are evolving; they are inspired to join the effort

Press release: Coming in separate mail

LiveMeeting: I will create a new series in an effort to have Arnie join more easily

Next week: Ed Hickey, Community PM, will join to plan the conference call between the Council and SQL MVPs


 Present: Artem, Kim, Larry, Arnie, Monica

  • Naming policy:

Add to signup page: “Use a professional name, personal or otherwise, to get appropriate attribution for your contribution. This will help you build your professional brand. The Community Council will evaluate names that are unprofessional and take action if necessary.” Council: Please send any feedback on this language. After it is final I will add to the signup article.

Note: For the record, if the Council feels action should be taken we will notify user, explain problem, ask them to change, and then take appropriate action if necessary. We won’t delete account without contacting

Questions for Eric/Sean: 1) Should we monitor signup? 2) How will unified profile work with all this?

  • Social media: Jen Lussier, a Community PM, will attend our 8/19 meeting to describe her social media plan. Monica to try to send the plan out beforehand for review
  • SQL MVPs: Ed Hickey, Community PM, will attend our 8/26 meeting to plan a conference call with SQL MVPs
  • Events: Kim is recommending two official conferences for wiki presence, and many more local conferences, using minimal budget and travel. Should have a presence at SQL Pass in November (in Seattle).  We will consult the Advisory Board for ideas and staffing in September. Different types of engagement: presence, session, “non-event” (informal gathering before or after). We’ll discuss further 
  • Wiki “press release”: Artem, Arnie, and Eric to draft and show the council. Monica to discuss with Eric to get started. (Note Artem’s earlier suggestions: Should be informal, free of buzzwords, clarify distinctions between library, forum, blog, and wiki content)
  • Internal participation: In addition to consulting CSS, we should consult MS Learning. It includes 15,000 people who might want to become regular contributors. Should get the press release out to MCT
  • Kim’s observations on TechReady: (Internal MS conference for field to learn new technologies.) Biggest problem for the wiki is lack of awareness. People also want to understand non-English plans
  • Non-English: Discussions starting. To illustrate the complexity, Artem states that Russians who would contribute would likely do so in English, but Russians who need technical information would likely seek it in Russian. We’ll inform the council about these discussions for input


Meeting canceled because of vacations.


Meeting canceled because of vacations.


Present: Larry, Kim, Artem, Arnie, Eric, Monica. To-do’s in bold.

  • Alias: We will create the alias to accommodate MS and non-MS people. Should have it in two weeks or less. Monica
  • Unified profile: Should be done in three to six months if not sooner. Has to be taken care of before removing the beta label. Eric/Sean (lead developer)
  • Bugs: Feature requests, etc. are being triaged. The priority for now is easy contribution: signup, profile, activity, etc. Eric/Sean
  • Moderators: This is the generic reference to people who monitor content. “Deleters” is the term for now for people with delete permissions. Deleters are a small group of early Ninjas (10 or fewer). Since there is little malicious behavior we don’t need too many people with these permissions now
  • Bulletins: Corporate and regional offices, MSDN and TechNet Flash. Eric to follow up. Yes, for MSDN we have a branding problem currently, but hopefully we have compelling developer content that trumps that. We might need to wait to get Patterns and Practices content on the wiki before appealing to MSDN. At that point we need an editorial calendar for marketing and promoting the wiki
  • Advisory board: We have two requests for them about increasing contribution: 1) What are the technologies we should target now? 2) What ideas do they have for getting more MVPs on the wiki? Monica
  • Wiki “press release”: Need a brief doc that makes a resounding case for the wiki, for all-purpose promotion. (What’s in it for me? Branded location for content for new MVPs. Place to extend influence for experienced MVPs, etc.) Arnie could take this doc to other SQL MVPs as a first step to getting a body of SQL content on the wiki. Eric and Monica to draft and show council for review? Anyone else want to help/mastermind?
  • MVPs: Ed Hickey, SQL Community PM, will come to a council meeting August/Sept to discuss arranging a meeting with MVPs about the wiki
  • Social media strategy:  Jen Lussier, PM, will come to a council meeting in August/Sept to discuss plans
  • Working groups: All working groups (marketing, social media, events, etc.) will meet with the council to convey plans/progress
  • Next meeting: Next week canceled. Kim to send mail about meeting the following week. Arnie would like to discuss ideas for increasing contribution: Could we assign content areas to MVPs or customers? “Lead Wranglers”? Need to make people feel needed, make people want to do good, to help, etc. 


Present: Arnie, Mark, Kim, Artem, J.C., Larry, Monica

  • New members, Mark and Arnie, were welcomed; introductions made all around
  • Alias: With several non-MS members, we should now have an alias to accommodate everyone. Ed Hickey, a Community PM, has instructions and will forward Monica
  • Profiles: Community Council article has been updated with links to Mark and Arnie’s profiles. Mark and Arnie, would you mind creating profiles? Makes the wiki less anonymous; people are more likely to friend you and consult you about your expertise
  • Unified profile: What is the status? Eric
  • Moderators and moderators-to-be: Discuss again with Eric ways to get forum moderators and MVPs more involved (part of the advisory board work)
  • TechNet and MSDN bulletins: Every region has a biweekly TechNet newsletter. Mark will look into including the wiki for TechNet. Arnie will follow up for MSDN bulletins
  • Advisory board: Discuss the nature of this board a bit more. Keep small? A member from each region? Are they a conduit? The political analogy: Are they like ambassadors, bringing concerns to and from the State Department?
  • Working groups: Will focus on important aspects, like marketing, social media, etc. Will likely not begin much work until September. Avoid excessive organizing too early


Meeting canceled because of vacations.


Present: Kim, Larry, J.C., Monica

  • Final council member: Susan to consider drafting the advisory board’s charter. Monica to contact Henrik Walther. When the charter becomes clearer and a few people have joined the board, then we can contact the other council candidates and invite them to join the council
  • Working groups: We’ll help these groups progress. The owners should solicit participation broadly: the Ninjas, on the forum, through Facebook, Twitter, etc. We should also create a page on the wiki to summarize the groups’ goals, plans, and status (do this when Kim returns from vacation mid-July). The owners would report findings to the council after a period of time specified by them (to account for vacations and workload). Then we’ll consider next steps (feature requests, budgeting, etc). Assuming these groups are successful, we’d eventually like to see their scope extended to include, for example, working on content projects. These groups could become an important model for many wiki projects
    • Feature requests: Technical Council. Issues include home page, templates, non-English, and deleted articles. Ed Price is kindly organizing the feature requests in the forum for faster triage
    • Social media: Jen Lussier
    • Marketing: Eric, Monica, STO, advisory board (the board will likely take on other issues as well)
    • Events: Kim Ditto-Ehlert
    • Locking, badging, pending changes: Tom Shinder
    • Logo: Eric
  • Patterns and Practices: Eric and Monica to meet with them regularly in an effort to pilot some of their content. As a council we want all contributors to understand community ownership, so we will emphasize that in all marketing efforts
  • CSS meeting: Larry talked to his CSS contacts and we’ll meet with them (starting with Hunter Donald) soon. Ideally we’d have several meetings to explore all possibilities. Challenges may be finding a way account for their time or to see tangible benefits. But we will approach this as: “What can we do to make your contributing to the wiki benefit you and customers?”
  • No meeting next week: Off the hook until the 15th because of the 4th of July, etc. I’ll delete the S+


Present: Artem, Kim, Larry, Monica

Please vote! J.C., Gerard, Susan: We want everyone to vote for the last council member. You can reply all or mail me directly. By end of week would be great. In addition to finalizing the council, we want to ask the other candidate to join the advisory board to help with marketing

Working groups: Groups are forming to address wiki issues. The council recommends that when such groups form, they use the forum and other social media to get external contribution. They also use LM, not Communicator, so that external  people can participate in meetings:

  • Feature requests (including home page, templates, non-English): Technical Council
  • Social media: Jen Lussier
  • Marketing: Eric, Monica, STO, advisory board (TBD)
  • Events: Kim Ditto-Ehlert
  • Locking, badging, pending changes: Tom Shinder
  • Logo: Eric

Note: Artem is an example of an external person who wants to participate in several of the above groups, particularly feature requests. We should be sure to include him

Developer audience: Nothing much we can do now to avoid confusion about developer content on the wiki except to use social media and events to let people know that developers are part of the wiki audience

Council charter: Our role is evolving, still sometimes vague, but we are generally attempting to make the wiki useful to non-MS people

Deleted topics: Need to follow through with Eric and Sean on what happens when an article is deleted, including what the UI should say. Monica


Present: Artem, J.C., Larry, Kim, Monica

  • Final council member: Should try to decide on this soon based on MVPs and other candidates we’ve discussed. Let’s try to vote next week
  • Templates: We like the idea of optional templates to increase clarity and contribution. Suggestions: 1) When a user creates an article, links to templates could display in the right rail; 2) Create a template for a stub article that could ease people’s concerns about adding content.
  • Pending changes plan for Wikipedia as an alternative to locking content: Revisit with the Ninjas and Gerard. The moderators should be identified and we should figure out what rights they should have
  • New spam filter: Eric to ask Sean about the filter’s learning capabilities. If we feel we need an alias, find out about Windows Live groups, Facebook etc., since the alias will include non-MS. Monica to consult Community PM about aliases with internals and externals  
  • Marketing the wiki: Suggestions: 1) Take up with the advisory board, a group of high-level contributors who can help us get other high-level contributors on the wiki. First people to ask include Henrik Walther and either Arnie or Mark (above); 2) Work with outbound marketing to have them promote wiki content on their official social channels for product; 3) User groups: who works on the wiki who participates in user groups. Should begin coordinating the marketing work with Eric and STO. This should be a priority. Clarify purpose of advisory board next week, identify candidates, and contact them to set ongoing communication up. From Artem: We actually have a local usergroup here in Russia who are currently in the middle of planning for a new website. Initially they decided they need a Wiki for community content (i.e. not info about the UG itself but technical product knowledge generated by the UG members). I convinced them not to implement their own wiki and to contribute to the global TN Wiki instead.
  • Proposal to CSS: Instead of a proposal we will set up a meeting with CSS staff that J.C. has recommended. Meeting to be scheduled for early July, after J.C. gets back from vacation. Will include interested council members, Eric, possibly STO, and Trace Young (BizTalk writer; former CSS)
  • MS forum guidelines: These guidelines have been added to the wiki by CSS staff. Monica will add text to this home page to encourage forum moderators to contribute to the wiki
  • Home page: OK for now but we want to move to more solution-oriented links. Eric and STO want to further discuss home page redesign
  • Deleting articles: Clarify features and process. If content is outside the scope of the wiki try to contact the author to relate to MS technologies. If it’s abuse just delete. Council should decide on what UI should say. Eric: Look into purge, which will allow title of deleted article to be reused. Per Artem: We actually need this feature (to reuse the article title) not only for deleted articles, but also for renamed.
  • Eric: Check on Ubuntu books for council members
  • Eric: Need a design resource for a logo that people can use to show loyalty to the wiki (Monica to ask Craig Liebendorfer what Scripting Guys uses)

Ways to think about logos:

This is TN Wiki, it is cool, come to check it out (this message may actually have  no text at all, just a logo).

I am an active contributor on TN Wiki, come to check it out (non-personalized, the link goes to the Wiki’s main page).

I am an active contributor on TN Wiki, here’s my profile, come to check it out (personalized, the link goes to the person’s profile).

I see that Scripting Guys have just a logo (aka “Dr. Scripto”) that is highly recognized by the community (actually a friend of mine, who is a PowerShell MVP, uses this picture as his userpic/avatar everywhere. And I know he’s not the only one). They time to time include the logo into their special communications, like more specific contest badges or something like this.


Meeting canceled since several council members are preparing for the TechEd Conference. Meetings will resume on June 17th.


Present: Artem, J.C., Kim, Monica

  • Kim’s survey for TechEd: Reviewed by council and finalized by Kim. We want to understand more about customer attitudes toward community content (usage, level of trust). Thanks for Artem and Larry for comments
  • Request to add a “Forum Moderation Guide” to the wiki. This is a guide for internals and externals who moderate MS forums: We have okayed this (although other council members can weigh in if they like). It’s a request by CSS to put an externally facing guide for moderating MS forums. A hoped-for byproduct is that readers of this guide will contribute to the wiki. Monica is the contact and will review the final articles
  • Proposal to CSS: We will arrange a meeting with a CSS staff member in charge of front-of-the-funnel content, to start a conversation about having CSS put content on the wiki. It does not have to be locked. Monica also got advice from her manager to consult TechNet, to see how the two properties (TechNet and microsoft.support.com) can work together to put content on the wiki
  • SEO: An article on search tips exists. The SEO experts on Monica’s team will augment and moderate the article
  • Locked content: The forum entry about this issue exists. It has many views but no votes or comments. I assume this is because there isn’t a yes or no answer. Gerard, any ideas about how to get people to vote? 


I could not find the notes. I believe we discussed what we should put in an article titled "A Day in the Life of a Wiki Article." This article will provide end-to-end information about a wiki article (creating, moderating, promoting, etc.). We're still working on this.


Meeting canceled since too many council members were unavailable.


Discussed general wiki info:

  • Pre-release content. Have to emphasize to moderators the importance of keeping pre-release content updated. When status changes, text must be updated. Avoid pre-release version numbers in titles.
  • Council member: Still need one more member. Be on the lookout for active contributors
  • Disclaimer: The wiki disclaimer is LCA-approved, and is the same as for forums and blogs
  • Roles : Need to distinguish between a “moderator,” which is anyone who reviews and modifies articles, to the person who has permissions to delete articles. Monica to consult Gerard about this
  • Feedback link: The link goes to TechNet and then to Sean and Eric. This process fine now; revisit if volume increases
  • Feedback article: Article with feedback links. One for technical council, for community council, etc. Use existing articles. Encourage people to go to forums. Gerard
  • MSFT: Appending MSFT or MVP to name. Making a distinction between MS and non-MS users is somewhat controversial, but it’s not a big problem now so we won’t modify guidelines. Will change when we have a unified profile system
  • Wiki tab: When will this be enabled for other locales? The question came up from a Loc PM in Singapore. Implementation under discussion possibly for FY11


Present: Larry, Gerard, Artem, Kim, Monica

Continued working on conduct info:

  • Provide a balanced point of view (BPOV): BPOV is represented on the Wiki by taking care to consider both sides of an issue. Writing an explanation about a technology may not necessitate raising an issue or exploring the different solutions available, but if you write an article comparing technologies or exploring an issue, you must maintain a balanced point of view. A BPOV includes information about non-Microsoft technologies. It also keeps the wiki technical, not marketing, in tone.
  • Provide complete solutions: If you write an article, you should expect, want, and accept the contribution of others – that is what Wiki is all about! However, please try to make sure the reader can accomplish the task you are trying to illustrate. If you’re not quite certain of the steps, put them in, but tag them with a NEEDS WORK or NEEDS VERIFICATION note.  Do not link out for the detailed steps – articles on TechNet Wiki should either be self-contained or link to other TechNet locations for expansion and detail – but do feel free to add a References section or a For More Information section at the bottom of the article.
  • Do not advertise: The TechNet Wiki is not a place to advertise your products or services, or to solely drive traffic to your website. Make sure it follows Provide complete solutions.
  • Label pre-release content: Clearly indicate the version of the product, including pre-release version. Do not post content about products that are under a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) or that are not publicly available. Also, do not post bugs or questions about pre-release content; the place to participate in the pre-release process for Microsoft products is Microsoft Connect.
  • Do not plagiarize: Do not copy content without specifying the source and providing a link to it. It is better to summarize or enhance the original content. If you do copy content, add this disclaimer: “This information was originally published by <author name> at <URL>.”
  • Don’t delete articles without some follow-up. Articles that are stub topics that have no activity may eventually be removed. We will attempt to contact the author before action is taken. If you have no email address in your profile, this contact cannot happen. If you post spam or other inappropriate material, your article will be deleted without contact.
  • Disclaimer: In About TechNet Wiki we say “This is a community site. For official documentation, see MSDN Library, TechNet Library or contact Microsoft Support.” Is that adequate?
  • Assume good faith! In general, articles maybe be reorganized and content moved. Gerard to complete.


Present: Artem, Larry, Kim, Monica, Gerard

  • TechEd: We should try to give out the last pass ASAP as hotel room is scarce. Monica waiting to hear from the Business Platform Division about who is going from their User Education group. Conference details: Need to fly in early Sunday at the latest to set up and staff booths. Conference ends Thursday at around 5:00
  • Guidelines/recommendations: We are taking on responsibility for drafting recommendations about recent wiki conduct issues. Need these to be conspicuous in the wiki to encourage good conduct and efficiency
  • Balanced point of view (BPOV): Proposed definition: Maintaining a balanced point of view in the Wiki enables the Wiki to contain solution–oriented content that can include third-party information, where you can express a preference for one solution over another, while avoiding criticism. It also keeps the wiki technical, not marketing, in tone. Kim
  • Pre-release content: Wiki does not contain content under non-disclosure agreement (NDA); pre-release content is OK if its pre-release status is clear, etc. Larry
  • Disclaimer: For certain unsupported solutions (although most covered by the general wiki disclaimer) Artem
  • Self-contained solutions: Kim
  • Plagiarism: We already have some info that Monica will consolidate. But we need to consult Sean/Eric about whether the current link for reporting conduct problems is adequate
  • Announcement page: Add a page to announce technical matters (server maintenance, etc.) and important conduct matters, including some sort of conduct agreement. Discuss with Eric
  • Customer Support Services (CSS): Proposal in progress for their participation. Will go over issues below with J.C. next week
  • Bios: Artem will add. Also, we should strongly encourage wiki participants to add bios to make the community less anonymous
  • Council alias:  Keep as is for now. But need a council feedback form. Monica to consult Sean/Eric
  • Meeting time: Changing to 8:00. Changing to B. 42

Proposal for CSS participation. Please add more items that we can discuss with J.C. before writing a formal proposal to CSS:

  • What does CSS need from us to engage successfully on the wiki? (reference to metrics)
  • Is there CSS content we can’t add without locking articles?
  • What are current CSS commitments for community content? Would they have to be changed for the wiki?
  • MVPs write community KB’s. Susan will try to find one. Would indicate that it’s not official
  • Clarify support boundary issues (discuss “fast publish,” “commercially reasonable” support, etc.). Emphasize that a strength of the wiki is speed of publishing
  • What about identifying “Preliminary KB content” for the purposes of getting info out fast and getting feedback. Then article becomes final. Potentially a great help to CSS


Present: J.C., Kim, Monica, and Eric (briefly).

  • Code of conduct articles: We should continue to review. If these articles are clear then the community can moderate itself more effectively. Monica to forward the current definition of neutral point of view (NPOV) to make sure it’s clear
  • TechEd: We have three staff badges we don’t want to waste. Kim to mail Susan and UA managers in her org to find takers. Monica to find out who’s going in BPUE. J.C. can’t go
  • Other events: We should have wiki representation at important events. These include TechEd, TechReady (2 per year; local; next one in July), MVP Summit (local; over for 2010); PDC (Los Angeles; October). Consider formal/informal gatherings before a big event, like PDC. Eric will request more money for evangelism. Discuss all this further next week
  • Profile: Would be good for council members to have bios if they don’t already. Can everyone check?
  • Marketing: Eric meeting with Oliver (marketing) and an evangelism group (DPE) and will find out more about creating a marketing plan
  • CSS: Proposal in progress for incorporating CSS content into the wiki (Monica)
  • Metrics: Eric will forward metrics every few days until Telligent Analytics in place

Couple of council members at conferences, user groups this week. More will be present next week.


  • LiveMeeting: We will use LiveMeeting instead of Communicator for our meetings so that MVPs and at-large members can connect to the meetings more easily. Monica to test LiveMeeting with Artem.
  • Council members: Kim is trying to find a second MVP for the council (done). All council members: See who is active on Wiki Ninjas alias to fill the other at-large spot
  • Code of conduct: All: Identify relevant entries and make sure they are complete for the 4/14 launch. We’ll do a status check by phone or email on Tuesday. This will help us determine our initial responsibilities.
  • Landing page: Organize links to portal and technology pages in table form. Larry: Will investigate how we can use RSS feeds to populate these portal pages. Eric will do copy/paste when page is final.
  • TechEd: The council will set up a booth in community lounge area. We’ll have a giant screen and will be able to promote and work on the wiki in relaxed environment. Tony, Eric, and Kim will be there.
  • Wiki launch celebration: 4/14th from 3:30 – 7:00. At the Spitfire in the Commons (Redmond only, sadly).
  • Boilerplate to announce wiki: Kim is creating a page on the wiki and will post on the forum. The idea for this boilerplate is to have brief text handy for the Wiki Ninjas and others to promote the wiki.
  • CSS participation: Would be great to use the wiki to get information out to customers to prevent support calls. Currently CSS puts this info on blogs. To do: write a proposal to CSS to use the wiki for this early support information. Include a list of metrics that the wiki will provide to help show the page hits of the content (CSS contact: Hunter Donald). In the meantime, we will continue discussing options for CSS participation in the wiki with CSS staff in Charlotte: For example, by adding a link to the wiki in support email; putting preliminary KB content on the wiki using an authoring tool that tracks time (contact: John Kearney). (Monica, Larry, J.C. and anyone other interested council member).


  • The landing page. Must simplify this page. It should be just a short paragraph about what the site is for and what we expect from you the reader. It should also contain information about how to search, how to edit, how to create, and the code of conduct. We should link to the wiki vision at the bottom. Kim to draft and we will send out on forum for review 
  • The remaining council members. Especially if we get a slot at TechEd, we should make a strong showing. Kim, Tony, Eric are attending already so far. Booth is open 10 hours a day, so we need staffing. All council members: Think of others who can staff the booth. (Mail Ninjas?) Monica to talk to Ed Hickey; Kim to contact Kevin Beares for MVP ideas for the council and TechEd
  • Launch celebration (internal to Microsoft): Around 4/17. Brooke to arrange and advertise. Eric to look into the cost of “throwing stars” as a little give-away
  • Plagiarism: All: Review the code of conduct, esp. plagiarism. Will discuss important entries for the code of conduct next week. A way to avoid plagiarism generally should be to summarize content and link to it; not copy. This strategy moves us toward better link attribution
  • CSS (Customer Support Services): Monica, Larry working on long-term participation. Monica setting up meeting with GM (General Manager) in CSS soon and will invite council
  • Announcing the council: Monica to create council topic. Will contain charter, meeting minutes, and requests for agenda items. Eric will send out link to topic with announcement mail
  • Boilerplate text to announce wiki: Short paragraph people can use any place, anytime to promote the wiki (and modify where necessary) Volunteers?


See Also